From “Diversity” to Integration with Dra. Nicole Cabrera Salazar
Episode Summary: In this episode of The Diversity Gap podcast, Bethaney sits down with Dra. Nicole Cabrera-Salazar. Nicole has a PhD in Astronomy and is the founder of Movement Consulting, working for cultural integration within STEM fields in higher education. In this lively conversation, Dra. Nicole shares about her experiences in higher ed, her work with empowering underrepresented minority students, and her insights on how organizational cultural shifts are happening for leaders and teams who want to make a difference.
Episode Notes: Movement Consulting
https://www.movebold.ly
Movement Consulting on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/moveboldly/
Transcript
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, students, diversity, astronomy, talk, hear, science, nicole, stem, experience, important, integration, conversation, question, speak, work, identity, happen, marginalized, land
SPEAKERS
Bethaney Wilkinson, Dr. Nicole Cabrera Salazar
Bethaney Wilkinson 00:06
Welcome to The Diversity Gap podcast where we are exploring the gap between good intentions and good impact as it relates to diversity, equity and inclusion. My name is Bethaney Wilkinson and I am your host Hi, welcome to another episode of The Diversity Gap podcast. For this episode, I'm really excited to share with you a conversation I recently had with Dr. Nicole Cabrera Salazar. Dr. Nicole is an astronomer. So she has her PhD in astronomy, which I just think is the coolest thing in the world. She and I got connected a few years ago, through plywood people, we had these gatherings specifically for entrepreneurs of color, and Nicole came and we talked and met up and there was just a lot of synergy between the work that we do around facilitation and organizational change. Um, in the last year or so Nicole has recently launched a new company called movement consulting. And she works with, with academic departments, specifically stem departments to help them pursue greater cultural integration. And so this conversation, it was really special for a lot of reasons. We talk about the importance of integration, how integration differs from diversity, we talk about the value of indigenous leadership in the sciences and in the world. And we talk a lot about just the difficulty of doing this sort of identity based diversity and integration work. And so as listeners, I do want to give you a little content warning, not only do we is there some adult language that might not be suitable for young listeners, but also towards the end of our conversation, Nicole shares just some stories about students that she serves and some of the violence they've experienced. And I just want you to be sensitive to if, if that's a topic, violence, if that's gun violence, specifically, if that's a topic that is difficult for you, just be mindful that that's going to come up towards the end of this conversation. And so, I think that's all I want to say about Nicole, before we dive in, she has a wealth of knowledge and wisdom and self awareness. And she's really funny. And so I hope you enjoy this conversation. Yeah, I'm just gonna dive in with my questions. And we'll just see where the conversation goes from here. So you're the founder of movement consulting, and I would love to hear what that is. And then even what was like the stirring that led you to create it, because I work with a lot of founders. And normally, people create something because they see a gap in the world or whatever, you know, they see that there's a way to do things better. So, um, what is movement consulting? And why did you found it?
Dr. Nicole Cabrera Salazar 03:07
So Movement Consulting, is a consulting firm, right now, it's just me. But what I do is I help scientists and engineers, the people in STEM, integrate marginalized people into their workplace by changing the culture. So I, I'm a trained scientist, I have a PhD in astronomy. And when I was coming up through that world, it was really hard for me in ways that it wasn't difficult even for the white women around me. And, and I wouldn't even say difficult, I would say toxic, actually. And my biggest dream was to become an astronomy professor. And, you know, how a little bit more than halfway through my PhD, I just decided, I'm not, I'm not going to do this anymore. Because it was such a hostile place for me. And so I really didn't have someone in my department, which is like, you know, when you're in grad school, your department is like your whole world. Yeah, you're a little fishbowl, and that's everything that exists. I didn't have a single person who was keeping for me who was, you know, who had my back who even like, understood what I was going through. Because there just wasn't like, I was the only Latina for a while. And, and yeah, it was really a really isolating experience. And I knew that if I had just had one person to kind of, like, even just validate my experience, I would still be doing astronomy, and I didn't have that, you know, back then. So I decided to leave my fields leave research, but it's kind of like I have like one foot in the door and I was like, I don't I was like, I'm leaving research, like, I'm not going to do that anymore. But I don't want this stuff to happen to other people. So I'm gonna go back in and be that person that I didn't have. And not only that, but spark kind of a change in, like really a paradigm shift in the way that we treat people of color in STEM.
Bethaney Wilkinson 05:25
Yeah, so gosh, that's so there's so much in there. And, and you spoke a little bit to your background, too, like wanting to be an astronomer and doing all the work to get there. I'm curious as you are out here trying to, like inspire this work. What do you see is working? Well, like? Where are people getting traction and following you and asking for you to come and do more like what? What's working for people? What's clicking for them?
Dr. Nicole Cabrera Salazar 05:51
So when I go out and meet my clients, right, there are a lot of academics working in universities. And they're really used to a colloquium model, right. So like, Let's invite a speaker to give a talk to our departments. And I do that I'm a public speaker, I've been doing that for like, over 10 years. But then I'm always like, let me throw in a little workshop for y'all. Yeah, you know, because like, one thing is like lecturing people. And another thing entirely, is to have them, have them actually work through these issues, right. And I remember when I was in high school, and I was in my engineering magnet program in like, a physics class that inspired me to pursue a career in astrophysics. There was a sign on the door, or no, there was a sign inside the classroom that said, I hear I forget, I see, I remember, I do I understand. Right. And that is kind of like, what I, what I do is facilitation, right? So I come in, and I'm like, Yes, I can give a talk. And I can I can tell you about these social justice issues within STEM. And on top of that, I can also teach you concepts that you can use to change your culture, right. And what I found that works is just being my whole authentic self. Right? So I'm speaking to scientists, hard scientists, right? Like who are very much, purports to be all about data and all about, you know, proof and everything. But what happens, which is very curious, is that when you show them, like, you know, quote, unquote, like hard facts, like statistics about, you know, racial injustice, and things like that, and even like experiences of marginalized people within STEM, or even society at large, at this is social science research, right? And it's very rigorous and robust. But they're like, well, they start to nitpick. And they'll be like, Well, I don't believe that. Like, you know, that doesn't seem plausible, or whatever. And it's like, letting those beliefs overcome this science that's been done, right? So when I go in, I don't come in with statistics. I don't I don't tell them like, this is why you should care about quote, unquote, diversity. This is why you should care about quote, unquote, inclusion, right? And I don't I don't I don't do that. Because I don't even talk about bias so much, because a lot of people focus on bias, and they focus on the unconscious part. And people get to pat themselves on the back, because they're like, Oh, well, I didn't mean this, because it's unconscious. Right? But I don't I don't focus on that I actually bring them my story, right? Because a lot of times what happens is that like people hear statistics, and they'll hear, they'll even see, like, qualitative studies with people's experiences, but there are no names attached, right. And so I've found that putting a name and a face to these experiences. It's very, it's much more difficult to fight back and to push back on that, right? Because they can, they can say, even though this is like totally antithetical to science, they can say like, oh, well, I don't believe these, you know, what are the errors on that? Or whatever? Or I don't believe these data. But you can't tell me that I didn't experience what I experienced. Right? Sure. And that can be so much more impactful to people.
Bethaney Wilkinson 09:17
Yeah. Wow. Okay, there's so much in there. So and a piece, I want to ask you a little bit about how you process sharing your story so much, but I'll get to that later. Before that you mentioned showing up as your full authentic self. And the last time we talked, you kind of talked, we talked a little bit about your name. And like the moment or the moment, it probably didn't happen overnight. But the moments when you learned or decided to say your full name, and I don't want to give you too much language around that. But can you like talk about that a little bit for our listeners, because I was actually in a conversation recently with a Latina woman and we were talking about this dynamic of her owning her name and the attention she's feeling around that professionally and using her accent versus Not and there's a lot there. And so Oh, yeah. Could you share that?
Dr. Nicole Cabrera Salazar 10:03
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, like being, being my authentic self has been quite quite a journey. Because I grew up in Miami, which is one of the largest Latinx enclaves in the US. And, and I was really around my people growing up and had no problem speaking Spanglish and just like, being myself, there was a lot of assimilation happening for sure. Like the fact that we call like, in that community, it's like, it was cool to speak Spanglish and to throw in Spanish here and there, but it's not cool to only speak Spanish, right? Because then you would be called Rafi or a ref, which is short for refugee right. And that's, that's so internalized, internalized, like racism and classism, too, right. So we I remember, in my high school, we had, like, there was like a rough Hall, we called it the ref Hall. And that's where like all the recent, like, immigrants, like Cuban, mostly Cuban, but other immigrants would like, gather like before classes, and they would have like, they would blast like to get done and stuff like that. And we were like, looking down on them. Right? So there was a lot of assimilation going on, there was a lot of like, ironing our hair with a literal iron, like a close iron girl like that one, you know what I'm saying? So like, we went through evolution, so even I would say like, even they're like in a in a place where I could be myself, quote, unquote, it wasn't fully right, because like, we're still operating under a capitalistic, imperialistic, you know, American state. And so, I was definitely influenced by that. But when I moved to Georgia, I experienced something totally different, which was, you know, just being other because at least, like, at least, right, silver lining this whole experience, like when I was growing up, like, there were other people around me that I could relate to, right. But moving to Georgia, it was like, instantly, instantly. othered right. So I went through experiences where people like, do you even speak English, my friends making, making jokes about like, you, Mexicans are all the same, and like me laughing a lot, because like, I didn't, I mean, I felt the pain of that, you know, other being othered. But it, you know, it felt easier to kind of go along with it. And I didn't really question it on a on a conscious level, for a long time. And so, at some point in grad school, I took some sociology classes race and ethnic relations. I was part of this conference called the inclusive astronomy Conference, which talked about social justice issues in astronomy, it was like a turning point in our fields. And astronomy is actually leading the charge in talking about these social justice issues within science, like and is kind of like almost a, like, a, like a, almost like a model for other STEM fields. I mean, we ain't shit, we got a long, long way to go. That was kind of a huge catalyst. I was in 2015. And I was like, wow, like, that was kind of the mirror that was put in front of my face to where it was, like, I was aware of being a woman in science. And I was like, yes, like, I've experienced that even since middle school in high school. But what I didn't realize was that there was another component of racism, or really like, xenophobia that I was experiencing. In, in my grad program, because I went through a lot of really toxic things. And I looked around and I was, like, you know, for being a woman in science, like, the white women around me are not experiencing the same things. So I at that, around that time, I started signing my emails with my full name because I was born. Nicola, Stephanie, aka salasar, right? In South America, you get your father's last name and your mother's maiden name. And, and that's your full name, right? And it's not hyphenated, it's two separate names, and everyone in South America like understands, right? That this is what you do in Central America, too. And, and I my social security card, for some reason, like only has my father's last name, probably because, you know, Americans like they're just like, No, we don't know how to deal with this. So you get your father's last name. And so everything except for my birth certificate, only has my father's last name, my license, my passport at the time. And, but I was like, This is not my full name. Like, this is not my name. My name is you know, Nick nickel, Governor Salazar. So I started signing with both my last names and my advisor. One time I was meeting with him and he was like, Hey, did you get married? And I was like, what? And he was like, well, because you have this like extra last name. I noticed and I was like, No, in South America, this is you know, how it works or whatever. And then I just kind of like, I was like, I wanted to reclaim that because names are so important, right? Like, they're, they're a huge part of your identity, right? Like whole literary works have been dedicated. So like that topic, right? And it's like, it's what you call yourself. It's, it's something that's super, super important. And so I started, I started using that name.
Bethaney Wilkinson 15:21
Gosh, so you're, you're living your life, being your full self. Yeah, navigating all of these different realities. And yet, you're still showing up to do this work around consulting around identity issues and inclusion and diversity. And so I'm curious about I don't know, what is. Why do you do that? A Yeah, I guess, because you could be an astronomer, even though that would be toxic. But yeah, why do you keep showing up to this work? In the midst of all the things that I know, are hard about it?
Dr. Nicole Cabrera Salazar 15:51
Yeah. So um, I want to answer that question. So hold on to that before I go off on like, super long tangent. And I can't get back to that. Yeah. But one thing I wanted to, I wanted to highlight to you probably notice that earlier, I use the word diversity, like quote, unquote, quote, unquote, inclusion. And I wanted to clarify that. Because I think it's important. So the work that I do used to say, on my website that I do like this diversity work when I first started, that's kind of like where my head was at. But now I'm like, I thought a lot about it. And it's something that that has really changed for me. So like, when I think about the work that I do in science, which is like a little niche of society where I have expertise, right? I don't I don't use the word diversity anymore. Because diversity is about numbers, right? It's about, you know, how many right in this pool? Add, quote, unquote, diversity. And I've seen like companies and even like, national agencies, right? scientific organizations use this diversity of experience diversity of geography, like how many people from the Midwest versus how many people from the West Coast, right, yeah. And so for me, it's not about diversity anymore, because that's just a numbers game. And I'm not here for that. I'm also not here for inclusion, right? Because inclusion implies that in my field, it implies that we own the science, and we're graciously opening our doors, right, to let these poor people in and participate in our science. Right. And I don't think that's right. So something that, that I learned from James Baldwin, he talks a lot about integration. And of course, like in James Baldwin, James Baldwin's time, it was during, like, the civil rights movement. And, and this is about this is about integration. It's about, you know, like, doing away with segregation, and these laws and everything like that. Right. But the way that he talks about it, I think it's what's really important, because I think that you know, STEM is very segregated, it's very segregated, right? When, when you see that there are only 16 black women, astronomy professors in the US out of 1000s. We graduate, I think, over 1000 PhDs in physics every year, and the fact that there are only 16 Black women in the country who practice astronomy as as, as professors. This is a segregated field. Right? And, and what I think is important is integration, right? Integrating, not just people, right? But traditional knowledge and values, right? Because, you know, Native people have been doing science for 1000s of years 1000s of years way before colonizers got here, Native Hawaiian people were doing astronomy, and and knew about astronomy, and we have like traditional knowledge, and not just astronomy, but also in physics and medicine and biology and, and chemistry and every different field. And we are not integrating those, you know, traditional knowledges because people will dismiss them, scientists will dismiss them as, quote unquote, religion, or myths, mythology, right. And this is something that really pisses me off. And what one thing that has been very recent is, I don't know if y'all have heard about this, but there's this struggle on Maunakea in Hawaii, because there was another telescope that was about to be built. And it's on the sacred mountain where they have ancestral burial sites and native Hawaiians Kanaka, Mattioli have been protesting the building of these new telescopes, even even back when they built on the the twin Keck telescopes, they're in back in the 80s I believer or than that, and there was a huge protest that had happened, way went back when this this project even started, but it really escalated the summer because they were trying to break ground, they were finally going to break ground. And so these Kanaka Maoli these land protectors, they went to the mountain, and they chained themselves to these greats and, and came up there and set up camps, much like you would see you saw in the Dakota Access Pipeline. Yeah, right, protesting the sorry, the water protectors there. And so and so we see that, like, in my field and astronomy, this was very much you could see the entitlements. And the, the belief that we are as a as Americans that went in, and, you know, colonized Hawaii, and, you know, unlawfully threw out the ruling power there and set up shop and took, you know, native land, just as colonizers did on mainland on the mainland, right. Just this entitlement of like, well, the science has to get done. And this is, you know, this is really important. And like, why wouldn't these people, these people want to increase the knowledge knowledge of the world? And it's like, you know, yeah, astronomy is important. Sure, but it's not more important than indigenous sovereignty. It's not more important than people's lives. And it's not more important than their livelihoods. It's not more important than their than their, you know, sacred land. Right. And so, I actually just got an email yesterday, that the, that the company that owns that project, has communicated to the governor of Hawaii, that they are not intending to move forward with construction at this time. And so, anyway, that that was like a super long tangent. But basically, what I'm saying is that, for me, the important part is the integration. Right? We need to we need to have that. But I want to go back to your question, which is, yeah,
Bethaney Wilkinson 22:08
No, you're fine. I remember I got well, I want to know life, too. I kind of want to push that question back a little bit. Ask you another question. Before getting to that one. As you're so you're working towards integration, bringing your full self to that work? I'm wondering, what are the biggest challenges? Because it's like trying to overhaul a system? Yeah, is ambitious, but important. And so I'm wondering, as you're beginning this work, or continuing acts, you've been doing it for a long time? What are some of the biggest hang ups, you're seeing that the STEM field, like the people that you're working with, that they're facing in this process of moving towards integration?
Dr. Nicole Cabrera Salazar 22:45
Honestly, that's a really good question. Because a lot of people expect the answer to be these, you know, quote, unquote, old white men who like, are not about it. And they're just standing in the way of us making all of this progress. And I get that, I get that question all the time. It's like, how do we, you know, whenever I go out there, and I visit these places, they're like, how do we like, get these people who didn't show up to your talk today? Who should be here? How do we get them to participate? Or how do we change their minds? Right? And my thing is, like, it's not, I'm not here for them. I'm not here for them. Right? Yeah. Because when I, when I first started doing this work, I was trying to change people's minds. Right. And that took a lot of energy it does, especially because I'm defending my humanity, to someone who doesn't see me as fully human, right. And I can do that, I and I have the energy to do that for identities that I don't experience, and it is my duty to do that. But to do it for myself is way too much. And also a waste of my time is what I found, it's a waste of my time. Why? Because there are so many people who actually need my energy. You know what I mean? Yeah, so many marginalized people in these spaces, who are isolated, who don't know what to do, who don't have any kind of mentor, any kind of like, person even paying attention to them. Right? And wanting to see them thrive, right, and those are the people who really deserve my energy. So no, it's not. The biggest challenge to me is not those people because that's not my job, that's somebody else's job honestly, and it should be done and it has to be done. But for me, the biggest challenge has been, you know, well meaning quote unquote, liberal people who are kind of like they understand that you know, this like quote, unquote, diversity is very popular right now. A lot of people are talking about it, it's something that they need to get on board with or seem to be on board with, right? Because it's a PR nightmare if they're not, right. And even university departments and universities like come under fire, right? Not as much as companies, which have HR departments and things like that, but, but they do. And so they kind of understand like that they need to kind of check this box and pat themselves on the back for for, you know, for checking that box. But my thing is, is a paradigm shift in the way that we even think about learning science and doing science, right. And a lot of people who I guess, they say, or maybe they even believe that they are about this, these changes happening, are not willing to put in the actual work. Yeah, they don't want to hear that they are complicit in this problem. They don't want to hear, because when I get this question, you know, people will tell me like, how do I engage other people? And I was like, no, like, we don't, we don't need to think about that. Because guess what, I had a lot of those people when I was coming up in this in this environment and academia, right? If I had had one person, just one person who, who understood on a fundamental level, the things that I was going through, maybe not because that they had experienced it themselves, but because they had read enough about it, and interacted with enough people and like educated themselves and took the time to unlearn these things in themselves. Right? If I had had one person like that, I would still be doing astronomy. So I don't care about the people who like didn't show up today, or who should quote unquote, be in this room, I care about the people who are in this room who think that they are not part of the problem. Because I personally am part of that problem. I am complicit, right. Because I have the experience of being Latina, an immigrant, you know, I grew up in poverty, but I also marginalize people whose identities I don't possess. And however unwittingly, I cause damage all the time. And that's something that I tell all of the students that I work with, is, you know, I'm going to fuck up. I'm going to make mistakes. I'm not perfect. And I'm going to work as hard as I can to create a relationship to foster relationship in which you feel comfortable calling me out. Right? Because that will have good, yeah. But it's like, what people want to hear is not that it's not that they have to do all of that work, right? It's that they want to hear that they're doing a good job, that they're trying really hard. Which a lot of times what I've seen is like, No, you're not trying really hard. You're not right, because it should hurt. You know what I mean? It should be like doing the work means giving up power, it means being uncomfortable. Okay, it means, you know, having to like not be able to save face in front of your colleagues. Right? Yeah, it means being that person at every meeting? Who's gonna call it out? Right. But it should be like that, it should be something that that is very uncomfortable that you are you're giving up something? Yeah, it's not this, like feel good kind of thing. Because the work that I do does not feel good, right? It does not feel good. And going back to your question about why, like, why I do this, I do this for the students, I do this for the people who were, who are in a situation where I was at. And for me, it's it can be very healing, to, you know, kind of come full circle and and close that loop for myself, for sure. And these are because they deserve it they deserve. Like, I tell them, I tell my students all the time, you know, whenever they thank me, you know, for mentoring them or helping them with something. I tell them, you deserve to have all the support that you can get, right? Because your white peers are getting that support without even trying without even asking, you know, and so for me, like, first of all, if all I did was work with like, you know, well meaning liberal white faculty, like I would have pieced out a long time ago. Yeah, because it is bleak out here. It's bleak. But the students that I see, you know, all the time, and like even high school students, like you know, undergrad students like they teach me so much. They know so much about social justice, like way more than I came into in my mid 20s to start learning like these students are just, wow, there's just so they're so knowledgeable and they're so compassionate and they're so, so much more willing to like work collaboratively and form community. Right. And so if it weren't for them, and I interact a lot with students because they really give We hope, you know, because otherwise, yeah, it's way too hard. It's really traumatizing to tell my story.
Bethaney Wilkinson 30:06
What I appreciate about you so much in your work is how you do what you have to do to show up as who you actually are, and keep going. And I'm not with you everyday. I don't know, like the rhythms of your life or your week or your year. But you're so intentional, and you're so thoughtful around it because it is exhausting and re traumatizing. I guess I'm wondering, maybe it's for myself, not only how do you do that, but for people who are listening, and they are trying to find their place in this work, whether they are I feel like you just gave a great assessment for the white liberal people who think that they're doing it if you're not uncomfortable, you're probably not doing it. So that's I think
Dr. Nicole Cabrera Salazar 30:42
You're definitely not doing it. You're definitely not definitely not doing Yeah, uncomfortable.
Bethaney Wilkinson 30:46
Yeah. And I love what you said about the saving face piece, because I see that all the time. Like oh, I'm sorry, I didn't speak up on that meeting. I was thinking this was like, oh, man, we missed them. Oh, man, you know, yeah.
Dr. Nicole Cabrera Salazar 30:56
Oh, don't even come to me after the meeting to tell me I'm sorry. I didn't speak up. Don't even come to me. Not to Vegas. For what? No, that okay. I'm sorry. I'm gonna get on my soapbox. Because that whole thing, yes. performative, it's performative, right? The thing that kills me because I'm, you know, I do it all the time. And like, you have to catch yourself, you have to become mindful. And actually, you know, catch it and try to change it. But there's so much performative, quote, unquote, allyship going on out there that I see, right? People who want to be visible doing this work, right, or they want, they want to show that they're with it. Right. Yeah, that they're hip to it. Right, that they that they get it? And that's not what we're here for. Right? Um, and it's like, it's performative. Because if it weren't, you wouldn't have to talk about it. Yeah. Because like, your work would speak for itself, for sure. You know, and I grew up in the church, you know what I'm saying? And like, there's a lot of things I questioned about it. There's a lot of things that I'm not about. But there were certain things that stuck with me. And one of them was You will know them by the fruits of their labor. I subscribe to that. 100%. Really, that's like a grounding thing for me is like, I don't want to talk about these things. I want to do these things. Yeah, right. Yep. And even when I don't want to do them. And, you know, going back to your original question, it's like, it's hard. It's really hard. It's not only a lot of like, internal work in the sense of like I'm unlearning all of these, all of these things that I've learned through capitalism and patriarchy and stuff like that. Institutional racism, but I'm also doing deep internal emotional work so that I can show up. Yeah, right. Yeah. And it's a lot. Yeah, absolutely.
Bethaney Wilkinson 32:57
And I think it's something that I think is really important for people to hear is how, because I think it's, even though it's hard, I think it is healthy, to be attentive and responsive to the things that are happening in your body as you're doing it as opposed to stuffing numbing, oh, all the other things, which there are moments and weeks or no, that is 100%. To me, this probably isn't the healthiest way to cope with the trauma I'm processing today. Yeah, um, but I think it's helpful for listeners who are maybe in similar positions of trying to advocate for changes based on their identity, or the identity of the community or a marginalized identity, to hear some of the work that has to happen so that you can not just show up to justice work, but to show up in your life. The healthiest, best, most free version of who you are. Yeah. So thank you for opening that up for us to listen to you and to hear.
Dr. Nicole Cabrera Salazar 33:48
Yeah, of course. I mean, I think that, like people really don't realize because we don't talk about these things a lot. But like, you know, I hear people say all the time, they're like, oh, but I'm so oversubscribed. I'm so like busy, whatever. What can I do? And it's like, first of all, we're all busy. Hello, welcome to, you know, the 21st century, everybody is busy. But are we prioritizing the people who really need to be prioritized? You mentioned like numbing, and like, not kind of like ignoring like running away from feelings and stuff. And I'm like the number one like offender of that and maybe number two, then you're not you're definitely not number one, that's me. But, but something that my intention for 2020 is to be more present in my life. I find myself doing a lot doing the most and, and I'm not present, like in my in my life and at any point in time because I'm always thinking about the next thing. And I I understand that that is a very, that's something that we learned from capitalism that I want to unlearn. And so the way And the way that I know how to do that, to become more present is just practicing is practicing more mindfulness, not as like a cure, all right? Because there are systemic things in place that prevent us from being present, of course, like it's all by design. And so but I, that's my intention for this year is to just like, be more present in my body. This past summer, one of the students that I worked with, his name was Jose he was murdered in in LA, while he was visiting a friend dropping off gifts for baby shower. And both of them were killed. And it was really, really hard. And this was a student I worked with. But there were people who were closer to him that I knew that I was trying to support. And I did so much that week to like, organize, you know, group chats with people and like, make sure that his obituary was being published in our, in our professional society, and like, all these different things, and when I finally, like, maybe like, four days after, after this happened, I like went, I was like, Alright, I'm gonna go to the pool, and I'm gonna just float. As soon as I got on my little floaty, I just started like, sobbing because I had put off those feelings and feeling them and really being in my body and experiencing that. And, because I was, I was just like, not able, like, I, I feel like, there's that. That feeling of like, kind of running away from feelings or like, is very familiar to me. It's not something that I do intentionally, but I can feel it coming on, I can feel myself filling my calendar, and, you know, putting more on my schedule, and like just doing so many things, and constantly running. And even though I'm doing this really hard therapy, you know, and like, trying to be more present with myself, it's still so hard. It's so hard, because we experience so many difficult things. And we're seeing, you know, people dying, like, this is like, the importance for me, it's like, it's not like, you know, people talk all the time about like, saying something offensive, quote, unquote. And I'm like, It's not about that. It's about the fact that people are literally dying. And it's our responsibility to do something about that. And at the same time, right, it's about healing ourselves. And thriving in the face of that, you know, like Audrey Lord, Lord said, like taking care of ourselves. It's not self indulgence, but an act of political warfare, right? Because we were never meant to survive, right? Like, black people were never meant to survive. Right? In this in this place, indigenous people, immigrant people, poor people were never meant to survive. And for us to thrive, and to like, you know, live our best life. And, and, for me, that is being present and healing, and allowing those feelings to, to be felt and to get the attention and care that they need. Right? That is what I want to focus on. More so than just like, Am I doing enough? Right? am I contributing enough to this work? Because that's capitalism, right? So that that's where I'm, that's where my brain is at right now. Like, how can I just be present? And and really, like, feel these things so that I can, because I preach about these things all the time. But I need to practice it too.
Bethaney Wilkinson 38:59
For sure. Yeah. Wow. That's a really good, not good in the sense that it's full of truth, and honesty, and, and even integrity. And so thank you, thank you for sharing, and thank you for the work that you're doing. There's so much that I want to keep learning from you. If there's people who want to follow you or support you support your students. Can you tell the listeners how to keep up with who you are and what you're up to?
Dr. Nicole Cabrera Salazar 39:27
Absolutely, yeah. Yes. So my platform on Instagram is at move boldly. And this is a platform that I created. That's just for students because, well, the intention is students there. They're the ones that I sent her marginalized students in STEM, but it applies so broadly that we have most of our followers are actually women in Atlanta. But I created that platform because students can afford my services and I want them to have Very, very good quality resources. So every week, we have a different topic that we talk about that's relevant to marginalize people in STEM, but also applicable to society at large. And, and then on Wednesdays, we usually have a live, it's been a minute, because I've just gotten so busy, but I just hired a social content lead. Stacy Rodriguez, shout out to her. Yeah. She's amazing. And I'm so happy to be working with her. And so we're going to come in strong in 2020. And we'll have we'll be going back to having the lives every week where we talk about this. So we're building community on that platform. And y'all can follow that. We also have a Twitter and a Facebook, same handle. We have not built that out yet, because my focus was really the students. But you can also follow me on Twitter. It's jazz tropomi. So Jay Z, Z TRONOMY. Offer and my personal Instagram, if you want to follow me, there's a lot of dancing that goes on high Instagram. It's Scientific America, cat.
Bethaney Wilkinson 41:11
So awesome. And we'll link to all of those things in our show notes. Thank you so much for being here.
Dr. Nicole Cabrera Salazar 41:16
Thank you so much for having me.
Bethaney Wilkinson 41:17
Of course, I could listen to you all day. Thanks. Okay, gosh, such a powerful conversation. If you're listening, one takeaway that I'd like you to consider that really challenged me is Nicole talks about the importance of not only acknowledging your privilege, but figuring out how to use your privilege to advocate for people who might not even be in the room or people who have a more marginal experience than you do. At the time of this conversation, I was actually for myself thinking through taking on this new leadership position within an organization that I'm a part of. And in listening to Nicole, I realized that there was some opportunity for me to think creatively about how to use that seat at that table to advocate for underrepresented minorities in that community. And so I just want you to be thinking about that for your life for your leadership. How can you use whatever influence or whatever position you have big or small to really advocate for, for people who don't have as much access or privilege or resources as you so that's something to think about? Until next time, thanks. Thank you for listening to The Diversity Gap podcast. If you've been challenged or inspired by what you've heard, please rate and review the show. You can also subscribe to make sure you never miss an episode. If you have thoughts or questions I'd love to hear from you connect with me at thediversitygap.com or on Instagram @TheDiversityGap. The Diversity Gap podcast is recorded on Muskogee Creek land in Atlanta, Georgia. This episode was produced by Matt Olin for Soul Graffiti Productions.